"Following the defeat of Nazi Germany, numerous Nazis remained. Following the defeat of the Soviet Union, numerous Communists remained. Ideas do not go away, especially pernicious ones."
The Nazis were smashed militarily, and their regime surrendered as there was literally no other option.
The Soviet Union was not smashed militarily. It collapsed internally, ideologically and economically.
Imperial Japan was smashed militarily, and so was the Confederacy in the American Civil War.
In the three cases where the enemy forces were literally crushed with great force, they were never again any significant military threat. But, they also had no external sources to rearm them and give them further hope.
But the Confederacy was still felt by Blacks, well into the 1960s. That's over a hundred years. Israel count its victims to Arab/Muslim murder from 1860 (the year of the outbreak of the American Civil War) enough is enough.
Some of the ideas behind the Confederacy were not killed, but the Confederacy itself was permanently destroyed, so the ideas had much less power. Maybe you can't kill ideas but you can drastically lessen their influence.
Thanks for giving us this interaction. So nice to read people who reconsider their ideas openly. I will read the original articles when I will be on my laptop and not just on a phone waiting in line. Meantime, just wanted you (both) to know I appreciate this.
This was a very confusing one to read. But some ideas expressed are familiar here in the US, e.g., that Antifa was an idea. Not only that but it meant Anti-fascist. It was a street gang when it needed to be, and probably students the rest of the time. It was nobody’s idea, though.
Somehow my solution to the Hamas problem is simple, since October 7: Israel cannot allow them to live near enough to them to allow anything like the attack they had undergone. They need to be imprisoned if they can’t be annihilated. Their weapons need to be destroyed. The Gaza gift needs to be taken back, etc. No tolerance.
I recently read Victor Davis Hanson’s book “The End of Everything,” about four wars in history that were not ordinary in that the victor actually annihilated the people and their civilization completely in their zest to have complete victory. In the last few chapters he outlines the conditions that make this inevitable on both the attacking nation and the nation fighting for its existence. Might be interesting to understanding the Israeli Hamas war and its end.
Thank you for the comments and criticism. One does not want to confuse one’s readers. I will try to do better in the future. Aside from that, interesting what you have to say about Antifa, and I will read that book by VDH.
This conversation is profound on many levels. It is honest, and it is a conversation!
I don’t know what to think of Bibi, and he will probably be a gonner when all has come out. But he is such an easy scapegoat for people who hated him before. It’s sort of like Jew hatred: it changes its colors according to the times.
You have expressed the idea so clearly, Mr. Neor (Rabbi Neor?). Like Nikki Haley says, “Finish them.”
Thanks Ehud. I appreciate the tone and content of our conversation. It makes blog writing a kind of limud bihevruta, the learning in teams of two, characteristic of yeshivas where the learners debate each other as much as they debate and analyze the text. It is the most effective learning technique of which I am aware! The record shows that when it comes to accurately understanding reality, we all have a lot to learn!
There is one point I want to clarify. I was not suggesting less than complete military and political defeat of Hamas. We agree on that goal for the war and I think an overwhelming majority of Israelis do as well.
What I was pointing to was the unreliability of Netanyahu when he uses the term "total victory." The term is useless as a clarifier of his goals, or of any goals. My point was the pathology of the man's conduct and his conduct of our nation's affairs. I think this lack of clarity was deliberate, in a pathological way. I also think Hagari's statement was simply a common sense clarification of why the term is useless as anything but a shallow slogan. That was the reason Tzchi Hanegbi used almost identical language speaking recently at the Herzliah Conference. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-plan-to-replace-hamas-to-begin-in-northern-gaza-in-coming-days-hanegbi/].
I agree with Neor's critique of your article and at the same time, I am very pleased to see how you are both continued the conversation with each other -- and it does look like the hevruta form of studying as you note here.
Your engagement in this process is why I will happily subscribe to your account.
The goal is to remove Hamas from any role in governing Gaza, which means complete defeat of Hamas as a political entity and denying them the possession of any political power.
The goal must be to resettle Gaza with Jews and encourage all Arabs to leave. They have 22 Muslim, misogynous, Apartheid, Arab countries to choose from.
An important thing people forget about Bibi is that he has a family legacy to uphold. If nothing, else he knows that. Athough imperfect, he wants to do the best for his country while walking a tightrope. What's wrong with Israel is the"conzepsia." It's what got us here and has to be dissolved and certain VIPS need to be arrested.
On this particular point of culture I admire the Japanese. When there is a catastrophe, the head man steps down, no questions asked. It is expected. Here, almost the first thing the military and intelligence heads did was to appoint new underlings to insure that their twisted approach to security would be continued into the future. Another thing they are doing is "investigating" themselves. Spin doctors all. Someone declared after the disaster that we cannot change leaders until the war is over. That is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard. A disaster of this scale called for immediate dismissal of all the leaders. I wrote about the outcome here: https://www.pisgahsite.com/p/the-calamity-and-clarity-of-absolute
I'm listening to the readout of witness to a witness as we speak, have devoured all of your content so far enjoying it greatly. In the case of Israel doing immediate firings would have brought more drama and possibly better results, in hindsight the results are satisfactory if not remarkable, I said the same thing you thought months ago but it's worked out. Going forward a complete revamp of the IDF is elemental with tribunals for the malpractice of leadership.
Ed Rettig wrote:
"Following the defeat of Nazi Germany, numerous Nazis remained. Following the defeat of the Soviet Union, numerous Communists remained. Ideas do not go away, especially pernicious ones."
The Nazis were smashed militarily, and their regime surrendered as there was literally no other option.
The Soviet Union was not smashed militarily. It collapsed internally, ideologically and economically.
Imperial Japan was smashed militarily, and so was the Confederacy in the American Civil War.
In the three cases where the enemy forces were literally crushed with great force, they were never again any significant military threat. But, they also had no external sources to rearm them and give them further hope.
But the Confederacy was still felt by Blacks, well into the 1960s. That's over a hundred years. Israel count its victims to Arab/Muslim murder from 1860 (the year of the outbreak of the American Civil War) enough is enough.
Some of the ideas behind the Confederacy were not killed, but the Confederacy itself was permanently destroyed, so the ideas had much less power. Maybe you can't kill ideas but you can drastically lessen their influence.
Thanks for giving us this interaction. So nice to read people who reconsider their ideas openly. I will read the original articles when I will be on my laptop and not just on a phone waiting in line. Meantime, just wanted you (both) to know I appreciate this.
I read the articles and I have nothing to add other than I am now even more appreciative of your engagement with each other.
This was a very confusing one to read. But some ideas expressed are familiar here in the US, e.g., that Antifa was an idea. Not only that but it meant Anti-fascist. It was a street gang when it needed to be, and probably students the rest of the time. It was nobody’s idea, though.
Somehow my solution to the Hamas problem is simple, since October 7: Israel cannot allow them to live near enough to them to allow anything like the attack they had undergone. They need to be imprisoned if they can’t be annihilated. Their weapons need to be destroyed. The Gaza gift needs to be taken back, etc. No tolerance.
I recently read Victor Davis Hanson’s book “The End of Everything,” about four wars in history that were not ordinary in that the victor actually annihilated the people and their civilization completely in their zest to have complete victory. In the last few chapters he outlines the conditions that make this inevitable on both the attacking nation and the nation fighting for its existence. Might be interesting to understanding the Israeli Hamas war and its end.
Hi Michelle,
Thank you for the comments and criticism. One does not want to confuse one’s readers. I will try to do better in the future. Aside from that, interesting what you have to say about Antifa, and I will read that book by VDH.
I like this: "The Gaza gift needs to be taken back."
Looks like Hanson's book is one I should read.
This conversation is profound on many levels. It is honest, and it is a conversation!
I don’t know what to think of Bibi, and he will probably be a gonner when all has come out. But he is such an easy scapegoat for people who hated him before. It’s sort of like Jew hatred: it changes its colors according to the times.
You have expressed the idea so clearly, Mr. Neor (Rabbi Neor?). Like Nikki Haley says, “Finish them.”
Thanks for your thoughtful comment. It’s Mr. Neor, but thanks for the compliment!
Thanks Ehud. I appreciate the tone and content of our conversation. It makes blog writing a kind of limud bihevruta, the learning in teams of two, characteristic of yeshivas where the learners debate each other as much as they debate and analyze the text. It is the most effective learning technique of which I am aware! The record shows that when it comes to accurately understanding reality, we all have a lot to learn!
There is one point I want to clarify. I was not suggesting less than complete military and political defeat of Hamas. We agree on that goal for the war and I think an overwhelming majority of Israelis do as well.
What I was pointing to was the unreliability of Netanyahu when he uses the term "total victory." The term is useless as a clarifier of his goals, or of any goals. My point was the pathology of the man's conduct and his conduct of our nation's affairs. I think this lack of clarity was deliberate, in a pathological way. I also think Hagari's statement was simply a common sense clarification of why the term is useless as anything but a shallow slogan. That was the reason Tzchi Hanegbi used almost identical language speaking recently at the Herzliah Conference. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-plan-to-replace-hamas-to-begin-in-northern-gaza-in-coming-days-hanegbi/].
May we know better days than these,
Anan Sahadei
Amen
I agree with Neor's critique of your article and at the same time, I am very pleased to see how you are both continued the conversation with each other -- and it does look like the hevruta form of studying as you note here.
Your engagement in this process is why I will happily subscribe to your account.
The goal is to remove Hamas from any role in governing Gaza, which means complete defeat of Hamas as a political entity and denying them the possession of any political power.
The goal must be to resettle Gaza with Jews and encourage all Arabs to leave. They have 22 Muslim, misogynous, Apartheid, Arab countries to choose from.
An important thing people forget about Bibi is that he has a family legacy to uphold. If nothing, else he knows that. Athough imperfect, he wants to do the best for his country while walking a tightrope. What's wrong with Israel is the"conzepsia." It's what got us here and has to be dissolved and certain VIPS need to be arrested.
100%
"Arrested"? Well at least downgraded.
No, arrested. Their allegiance to Israel is questionable.
On this particular point of culture I admire the Japanese. When there is a catastrophe, the head man steps down, no questions asked. It is expected. Here, almost the first thing the military and intelligence heads did was to appoint new underlings to insure that their twisted approach to security would be continued into the future. Another thing they are doing is "investigating" themselves. Spin doctors all. Someone declared after the disaster that we cannot change leaders until the war is over. That is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard. A disaster of this scale called for immediate dismissal of all the leaders. I wrote about the outcome here: https://www.pisgahsite.com/p/the-calamity-and-clarity-of-absolute
I'm listening to the readout of witness to a witness as we speak, have devoured all of your content so far enjoying it greatly. In the case of Israel doing immediate firings would have brought more drama and possibly better results, in hindsight the results are satisfactory if not remarkable, I said the same thing you thought months ago but it's worked out. Going forward a complete revamp of the IDF is elemental with tribunals for the malpractice of leadership.