From what we have seen until now, there should be no surprise if the next significant step in Israel’s redemption—the final defeat of all external enemies—is not accompanied by a shofar-announced irrefutable appearance of Divine intervention.
I love the fact that you’re trying to imagine the future. And this bit — “… Get back to Jerusalem and show us some of that Jewish magic.” — that’s right in my wheelhouse! But the question remains: Do we all need to return? If so, why? It seems to me that whatever Jewish magic you’re anticipating has already come to pass. Another 7 million Jews streaming to Jerusalem makes a point that is already obvious to those who choose to see it.
I think it's mix of this and that all this time. I'm tired for thousands of years already. I's like I've been everywere personally, and will never leave as well.
And why do you think non-observant are comfy? Sometimes it seems to me it's the other way around. But it's probably neither this nor that, it depends. I know more people who move towards observancy than the otherway around. Then, it makes sense, in my case.
By the way
?ראית את שטיסל
"חילוני עם איסורי מצפון"
:)
Thank you for the read, Ehud. Also, to write here anything in Hebrew is hard, it all jumps and switches places somehow. I think I'd write much more in Hebrew was it more user-friendly, logistically.
Glad you liked it Chen. "I'm tired for thousands of years already." Now that's a line I wish I had written.
For a while I had wondered why they are taking so long to support right-to-left languages. They probably did a market survey and realized that every single Israeli would start a substack and they worried about overloading their servers. You know, Israelis must always--how can I say it with love--express themselves.
In sort of a flip on this theme, I've occasionally asked Gentile supporters of Jews and Israel who are wont to say, "We support and love Israel and the Jews because they are 'the Chosen People of the Lord.'"- "...and if we weren't 'the Chosen People of the Lord,' - you know, just another embattled minority - would you still support and love us even though there no blessing on you implied as a quid pro quo for your support?"
Not to deny the validity of your question, but the same thing could be asked of observant Jews: "Given the blessings and curses at the end of Deuteronomy, or Jacob's promise after the vision of the ladder in Genesis 8:28, would you want to obey God even if there were no promised blessings?"
When it comes to Gentile supporters of Israel, I think there are a significant number of Gentiles who support Israel for various reasons apart from God's blessing, such as: (1) belief that it is fair and just for the Jews to have a state of their own; (2) respect for Israelis' achievement and competence in the years since independence in building a modern state; (3) utter lack of support for the Arabs in their attempts to wipe out Israel; (4) a feeling that the Jews and Israelis are like us, integral to Western culture, in a way that Arabs are not.
Speaking for myself, I do not support Israel for the sake of getting some blessing. And (5) Christian support for Israel includes the reasons given above, but is also based on (a) biblical prophecies and (b) views of God's sovereignty over the world. These lead us to believe that it has been and is God's will for the Jews to return to the land, which we recognize as paramount whether we get any blessing from it or not.
I first became interested in Israel when I read Leon Uris' novel Exodus while in high school in the late 1960s. I had no religious beliefs or interests, but felt the rightness of the Jewish cause. Later belief in the Christian Bible added other dimensions to this.
So, I think many non-Jewish supporters of Israel have genuine affection and respect for and interest in Israel in and of itself (without denying its obvious human faults such as every country has).
Actually, the O.T Covenant promises and prophecies are all unconditional. They are not dependent upon Jews to effect. They rest solely on God to perform. And God will bring it to pass. Only the Mosaic Covenant was conditional, based on Jewish performance. The broke it, it was annulled. The abrahamic and Davidic remain. As a result Christian, much is taught about the New Covenant that Messiah instituted. It is also unconditional. The NT teaches national isreal will be restored and all the promises of the Abrahamic and Davidic will be accomplished by God
Nothing says failed Messiah like needing to come back a second time to accomplish what wasn't the first time 🤦
If Christianity was real they wouldn't call it the crucifixion they'd call it the crucifact
I invite you to greet your fellow jezeusian mythologists with the following wisdom
Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-yes, even their own life-such a person cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 10:34-35
34. Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
Remember when you guys lied and proclaimed that the churches had seceded the Jews in being the new Israel and then 1948 came around and God's covenant was made even more apparent than it already was?
About Luke 14:26, notice that it includes hatred of one's own life - which includes everything within that life, including all of one's ties to the world. When it comes to family members, this hate is a sharp internal severance so that we can be truly independent before God, as we will be on the day of judgment. It can be related to Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac - a faith in God that takes place over everything else, but does not forbid natural family ties and affections at the same time.
About the sword of Christ in Matthew 10, did not the truth of God bring conflict between the Jews and the Egyptians, and the Canaanites, and the later opponents of Israel?
There is real evil in the world, and truth of a necessity brings conflict.
About some Christians claiming that the church had replaced Israel, many believe that God still has a purpose for national Israel, which is taught by Paul in Romans and is also evident in the affairs of the world. The survival of the Jews and their return to the land could not have happened without God's support.
You can say some Christians claimed but the papacy the Vatican and the entity of Christianity whether Orthodox or Western announced probably successionist theology which is not been revamped since 1948 which provided yet more evidence that God's putting us through the wringer but it's his plan.
The audacity of calling a book the New testament while referring to the Torah for its foundational and elemental truths escapes many and they find a righteous sanctimony in announcing its validity and dismissing the invalidity of the Torah a little bit and the talmud while citing it. British barristers cited talmudic law in the 1600s as the all men are equal under the law that underlines Western courts of Justice.
Fwiw I've seen Christian activist groups wanting to pursue a Christian law system when there is no codified Christian law unlike Judaism.
About the emphasis on hate, Psalm 97 says " Ye that love the Lord, hate evil," and in Proverbs 8 "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil:"
I consider the Church of Rome to be a flase church and care nothing for papal pronouncements. Many Christians still see a purpose for the nation of Israel which Paul plainly points to in Romans.
There is no audacity in calling a book the New Testament if it is true. We link it to the new covenant of Jeremiah 31.
Christianity does not have a codified civil law like Judaism does, but many of the Jewish laws are followed by no one today. This applies to all of the sacrificial and ceremonial laws and many criminal punishments - which were right and good and from God in that time and place.
Christianity does not present a political legal system, but has had a profound effect on legal systems with its ethic of justice rooted in God.
"Bring the Creator closer to the nations of the world, bring the nations of the world closer to the Creator. That is the job of the Jews on the day after."
Is that derived directly from the Tanakh? Or is that primarily a rabbinic teaching?
Thank you for your replies, I've had zero engagement except for shrugs previously when I've posted that as I've been heckled by Jew deranged folk...
That's the most plausible context I've had explained to me yet. I don't abide but you've given it an understanding from your side. Sub stack isn't letting me see your comment to fully engage further 🤷
I like the comment you posted that I'm replying to which my dad used to paraphrase as Jews needing to provide a dwelling place for God here which was plausible to me.
To paraphrase do not do unto your neighbor what is reprehensible to yourself as the dramatic difference between the Christian Golden rule which is do unto others as you would have done to yourself which is the expectation that others will do what you would do.
elemental foundational teachings of Judaism by Rabbi Akiva in reply to a Roman.
I don't know what part of my comments you were unable to see, it all seemed to be there on this thread.
The Jews did provide a focal point for God in the Temple and the Jewish nation - or rather, God provided that for himself in the Jewish people, but the Christian teaching as you know is that that was preparation for Christ, from which the truths of the one true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were spread through the world.
This reflection on resilience and memory cuts straight to the bone. You articulate with piercing clarity how Jewish history lives in that tension between mourning and moving forward—where the 'day after' isn’t about closure, but the courage to carry the unhealed. A masterclass in writing survival without sentimentality.
I love the fact that you’re trying to imagine the future. And this bit — “… Get back to Jerusalem and show us some of that Jewish magic.” — that’s right in my wheelhouse! But the question remains: Do we all need to return? If so, why? It seems to me that whatever Jewish magic you’re anticipating has already come to pass. Another 7 million Jews streaming to Jerusalem makes a point that is already obvious to those who choose to see it.
At this point all I can say is that who the hell knows? Maybe you are right.
WOW! That’s the highest of praise coming from you, Ehud. 😊 … Hope all is well with you & your family.
I think it's mix of this and that all this time. I'm tired for thousands of years already. I's like I've been everywere personally, and will never leave as well.
And why do you think non-observant are comfy? Sometimes it seems to me it's the other way around. But it's probably neither this nor that, it depends. I know more people who move towards observancy than the otherway around. Then, it makes sense, in my case.
By the way
?ראית את שטיסל
"חילוני עם איסורי מצפון"
:)
Thank you for the read, Ehud. Also, to write here anything in Hebrew is hard, it all jumps and switches places somehow. I think I'd write much more in Hebrew was it more user-friendly, logistically.
Glad you liked it Chen. "I'm tired for thousands of years already." Now that's a line I wish I had written.
For a while I had wondered why they are taking so long to support right-to-left languages. They probably did a market survey and realized that every single Israeli would start a substack and they worried about overloading their servers. You know, Israelis must always--how can I say it with love--express themselves.
ahahaaa
thank you for writing, Ehud
That’s a great line, indeed…
oh thank you
🩵
In sort of a flip on this theme, I've occasionally asked Gentile supporters of Jews and Israel who are wont to say, "We support and love Israel and the Jews because they are 'the Chosen People of the Lord.'"- "...and if we weren't 'the Chosen People of the Lord,' - you know, just another embattled minority - would you still support and love us even though there no blessing on you implied as a quid pro quo for your support?"
And the answer?
Folks rarely deign to answer.
Not to deny the validity of your question, but the same thing could be asked of observant Jews: "Given the blessings and curses at the end of Deuteronomy, or Jacob's promise after the vision of the ladder in Genesis 8:28, would you want to obey God even if there were no promised blessings?"
When it comes to Gentile supporters of Israel, I think there are a significant number of Gentiles who support Israel for various reasons apart from God's blessing, such as: (1) belief that it is fair and just for the Jews to have a state of their own; (2) respect for Israelis' achievement and competence in the years since independence in building a modern state; (3) utter lack of support for the Arabs in their attempts to wipe out Israel; (4) a feeling that the Jews and Israelis are like us, integral to Western culture, in a way that Arabs are not.
Speaking for myself, I do not support Israel for the sake of getting some blessing. And (5) Christian support for Israel includes the reasons given above, but is also based on (a) biblical prophecies and (b) views of God's sovereignty over the world. These lead us to believe that it has been and is God's will for the Jews to return to the land, which we recognize as paramount whether we get any blessing from it or not.
I first became interested in Israel when I read Leon Uris' novel Exodus while in high school in the late 1960s. I had no religious beliefs or interests, but felt the rightness of the Jewish cause. Later belief in the Christian Bible added other dimensions to this.
So, I think many non-Jewish supporters of Israel have genuine affection and respect for and interest in Israel in and of itself (without denying its obvious human faults such as every country has).
Interesting thought.
I read through the Tanakh every year. Your essay is interesting.
Thank you Rebecca Lee. I love Tanach.
Actually, the O.T Covenant promises and prophecies are all unconditional. They are not dependent upon Jews to effect. They rest solely on God to perform. And God will bring it to pass. Only the Mosaic Covenant was conditional, based on Jewish performance. The broke it, it was annulled. The abrahamic and Davidic remain. As a result Christian, much is taught about the New Covenant that Messiah instituted. It is also unconditional. The NT teaches national isreal will be restored and all the promises of the Abrahamic and Davidic will be accomplished by God
Nothing says failed Messiah like needing to come back a second time to accomplish what wasn't the first time 🤦
If Christianity was real they wouldn't call it the crucifixion they'd call it the crucifact
I invite you to greet your fellow jezeusian mythologists with the following wisdom
Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-yes, even their own life-such a person cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 10:34-35
34. Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
Remember when you guys lied and proclaimed that the churches had seceded the Jews in being the new Israel and then 1948 came around and God's covenant was made even more apparent than it already was?
About Luke 14:26, notice that it includes hatred of one's own life - which includes everything within that life, including all of one's ties to the world. When it comes to family members, this hate is a sharp internal severance so that we can be truly independent before God, as we will be on the day of judgment. It can be related to Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac - a faith in God that takes place over everything else, but does not forbid natural family ties and affections at the same time.
About the sword of Christ in Matthew 10, did not the truth of God bring conflict between the Jews and the Egyptians, and the Canaanites, and the later opponents of Israel?
There is real evil in the world, and truth of a necessity brings conflict.
About some Christians claiming that the church had replaced Israel, many believe that God still has a purpose for national Israel, which is taught by Paul in Romans and is also evident in the affairs of the world. The survival of the Jews and their return to the land could not have happened without God's support.
The emphasis on hate 👀
Is it needed to necessitate?
You can say some Christians claimed but the papacy the Vatican and the entity of Christianity whether Orthodox or Western announced probably successionist theology which is not been revamped since 1948 which provided yet more evidence that God's putting us through the wringer but it's his plan.
The audacity of calling a book the New testament while referring to the Torah for its foundational and elemental truths escapes many and they find a righteous sanctimony in announcing its validity and dismissing the invalidity of the Torah a little bit and the talmud while citing it. British barristers cited talmudic law in the 1600s as the all men are equal under the law that underlines Western courts of Justice.
Fwiw I've seen Christian activist groups wanting to pursue a Christian law system when there is no codified Christian law unlike Judaism.
ShalomAloha!
About the emphasis on hate, Psalm 97 says " Ye that love the Lord, hate evil," and in Proverbs 8 "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil:"
I consider the Church of Rome to be a flase church and care nothing for papal pronouncements. Many Christians still see a purpose for the nation of Israel which Paul plainly points to in Romans.
There is no audacity in calling a book the New Testament if it is true. We link it to the new covenant of Jeremiah 31.
Christianity does not have a codified civil law like Judaism does, but many of the Jewish laws are followed by no one today. This applies to all of the sacrificial and ceremonial laws and many criminal punishments - which were right and good and from God in that time and place.
Christianity does not present a political legal system, but has had a profound effect on legal systems with its ethic of justice rooted in God.
"Bring the Creator closer to the nations of the world, bring the nations of the world closer to the Creator. That is the job of the Jews on the day after."
Is that derived directly from the Tanakh? Or is that primarily a rabbinic teaching?
Thank you for your replies, I've had zero engagement except for shrugs previously when I've posted that as I've been heckled by Jew deranged folk...
That's the most plausible context I've had explained to me yet. I don't abide but you've given it an understanding from your side. Sub stack isn't letting me see your comment to fully engage further 🤷
I like the comment you posted that I'm replying to which my dad used to paraphrase as Jews needing to provide a dwelling place for God here which was plausible to me.
To paraphrase do not do unto your neighbor what is reprehensible to yourself as the dramatic difference between the Christian Golden rule which is do unto others as you would have done to yourself which is the expectation that others will do what you would do.
elemental foundational teachings of Judaism by Rabbi Akiva in reply to a Roman.
ShalomAloha!
I don't know what part of my comments you were unable to see, it all seemed to be there on this thread.
The Jews did provide a focal point for God in the Temple and the Jewish nation - or rather, God provided that for himself in the Jewish people, but the Christian teaching as you know is that that was preparation for Christ, from which the truths of the one true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were spread through the world.
We are taking their houses and stuff end of story
This reflection on resilience and memory cuts straight to the bone. You articulate with piercing clarity how Jewish history lives in that tension between mourning and moving forward—where the 'day after' isn’t about closure, but the courage to carry the unhealed. A masterclass in writing survival without sentimentality.