It's interesting, isn't it, how things have a habit of coming together in different ways, like the universe is trying to tell you something. But a question I'd like to ask, and which I asked in a study group a couple of months back (without a definitive answer)is: how come so many presumably intelligent people could believe someone was the Messiah just because they, or an advocate of theirs, says so? I mean, if someone said to me "I'm the Messiah" I'd probably respond by saying "Yes, and I'm the sugar plum fairy". Surely people can expect some form of proof?
The Jewish Messiah is flesh and blood. Traditionally. So there are no miracles expected. Meaning that the only proof will be when and if the Messiah ushers in the ingathering of the exiles (traditionally starting with the lost ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel). They are somewhere beyond the Sambation river (no clue). So the only proof is the proof that is in the pudding. There is one group, the Bnei Menashe, from the Burmese area of India who claim to be descendants of the tribe of Menashe. Several thousand have immigrated to Israel. One down, nine more to go...
Interesting, but might take exception to your statement that Sabbatai Zevi "managed to convince the entire Jewish diaspora of the mid seventeenth century that he was the Messiah." He had a lot of followers, and there was certainly a contagion. This article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbateans, for instance, includes a list of Sabbatai's opponents. So, that's my quibble. -- Bob (graboyes.substack.com)
I'm taking Schama at his word. Maybe I need to re-read that section. Anyway, when I linked to Wikipedia, I saw a different approach (in particular, that it was not Nathan of Gaza who "made" him). I decided to leave it as food for discussion. Sharp eye Bob! Contagion is the word.
The point about these contagions: when are they good and when are they bad and who decides. Probably should be asking this question of the younger set, who have a feel for things that go "viral."
This article was helpful in learning more about post-first-century Judaism. Thanks. Also, I have wondered in the past about why Phineas was not punished, but I guess it's my modern sensibility that questions it.
It's interesting, isn't it, how things have a habit of coming together in different ways, like the universe is trying to tell you something. But a question I'd like to ask, and which I asked in a study group a couple of months back (without a definitive answer)is: how come so many presumably intelligent people could believe someone was the Messiah just because they, or an advocate of theirs, says so? I mean, if someone said to me "I'm the Messiah" I'd probably respond by saying "Yes, and I'm the sugar plum fairy". Surely people can expect some form of proof?
The Jewish Messiah is flesh and blood. Traditionally. So there are no miracles expected. Meaning that the only proof will be when and if the Messiah ushers in the ingathering of the exiles (traditionally starting with the lost ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel). They are somewhere beyond the Sambation river (no clue). So the only proof is the proof that is in the pudding. There is one group, the Bnei Menashe, from the Burmese area of India who claim to be descendants of the tribe of Menashe. Several thousand have immigrated to Israel. One down, nine more to go...
Hmm, ok. Thanks!
Interesting, but might take exception to your statement that Sabbatai Zevi "managed to convince the entire Jewish diaspora of the mid seventeenth century that he was the Messiah." He had a lot of followers, and there was certainly a contagion. This article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbateans, for instance, includes a list of Sabbatai's opponents. So, that's my quibble. -- Bob (graboyes.substack.com)
I'm taking Schama at his word. Maybe I need to re-read that section. Anyway, when I linked to Wikipedia, I saw a different approach (in particular, that it was not Nathan of Gaza who "made" him). I decided to leave it as food for discussion. Sharp eye Bob! Contagion is the word.
The point about these contagions: when are they good and when are they bad and who decides. Probably should be asking this question of the younger set, who have a feel for things that go "viral."
Glad to serve!
This article was helpful in learning more about post-first-century Judaism. Thanks. Also, I have wondered in the past about why Phineas was not punished, but I guess it's my modern sensibility that questions it.
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